gambits

The Christian argument can be broken down into 1 of 3 categories. It is important to identify and point out when they switch(dodge) between them. The categories are:
1. God is real and the Bible is true.

There are dozens of sub-arguments in this camp, but only 4 may be worth reading a little about first. These include the Jesus argument, ontological arugment, Cosmological argument, and the transcendental argument.

Other arguments, such as the teleological argument (design argument), argument from beauty, argument from miracles, etc can be easily defeated without any background on the subject. In my experience these arguments are based on emotion. To respond to these emotional arguments you must first say something along the lines “it may be the case that god/jesus/everything you profess is true, but the logic of that argument is not valid.” If you can detach the argument’s validity from the existence of god (hard part), a simple analogy or discussion will refute it (easy part).

2. Religion causes good things to happen.

My first response is always that a religion’s goodness does not make it true. Sam Harris has made this point when he says something like this:

Imagine if I invent a religion right now that professes the following:
1. Be kind to everyone around you and treat them as you want to be treated.

2. Always make the best effort you can to solve conflicts without violence.

3. Try to teach your children math and science while they are growing up.

4. If you don’t obey these 3 things, your soul will suffer an eternity of pain under an 18 headed deamon named Albert.

If everyone in the world suddenly truely believed this religion, life may very well improve… but does that make Albert the demon real? Of course not.

Christians in this category will also bring up the 4 “evil atheists” (Hitler, Stalin, Mao Zedong, Pol Pot). You can get stuck in a battle of comparing evil atheists with evil christians, and chances are neither of you are historians and the argument quickly becomes very silly. I’ve been involved with this many times and have always “won” the point that those 4 people do not mean atheism is bad. The comments on this post by Dawkins are worth reading.

3. It takes more faith to not believe.

Fox news loves to ask the atheists about this. I always respond by asking “Does it take faith to not believe in Zeus?”. They will then go in a variety of directions, but ultimately the question is bogus and not difficult to defeat. Somehow Bill O’reilly is able to use a tone of voice and facial expressions that make him seem normal as he expresses irrational babble. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNmEoUTMga4

This goal of this gambit is to make the Christian think of Jesus as a real person (or ‘mammal’). Like anyone from centuries ago, Jesus is a surreal human-like-entity in our memory. Unlike Jefferson, the fact that Jesus is a god may cause dissonance to a Christian. This gambit will not likely earn you a conversion, but it can be an extremely effective stepping stone on the way.

Advantages:

1. Casual transition into religious conversation / non-obtrusive

2. Easy to remember & use

Disadvantages:

1. Difficult to measure effectiveness

2. Very difficult to do without face to face interaction (some online attempts are posted below).

y: do you think jesus ever sneezed
c1: lol. yes
y: me too
c1: ok good
y: did people back then wipe it on their sleeves
i don’t think kleenex was invented
c1: probably used their sleeves.
y: there is a lot of dust in the middle east
c1: that’s true
y: i wonder if jesus got a goobery sleeve during allergy season
c1: well i guess they could have carried rag type things
handkerchief type items.
y: hmm. i bet you are right.

I decided not to pursue further because I couldn’t tell how c1 was taking it (this gambit does not work well online). c2 is not a fundamentalist, but is a Christian. I prefaced by asking for fast answers to a bunch of questions.

c2: you better start asking by the time I get back
y: ok
well
my first question is
do you think jesus had a favorite color
c2: yes
next question
y: what do you think it was
if you had to guess
c2: blue
y: cool
do you think jesus ever sneezed
c2: yes
y: did they use their sleeves then
or had handkerchiefs been invented
c2: I think he probably sneezed into his hands
there were holes in his wrists
y: ha. only after the ressurection
c2: technicality
next quesiton
y: do you think he bit his fingernails
c2: no
y: how did he keep his nails short
c2: peeling them off
y: i bet nails were dirty then
you are probably right
c2: is that all the questions?
y: do you think people then were always constipated or always had diarrhea or somethign
c2: those conditions would balance
i imagine not
I’m going to go with no on this one
y: do you think jesus was ever constipated
c2: yes
y: did he grunt
c2: no
y: do you think he snore when he slept
or was he quiet
c2: quiet
y: do you think he ever got a boner
c2: yes
y: did he ever get a wet dream
c2: yes. yuck.
y: really yes?
jesus?
c2: yes
definately
y: did he masturbate
c2: yes
y: how often
c2: probably a lot more often as a teenager.
c2: he probably had depression
jesus was supposed to be just an ordinary man

I have found it effective to add subquestions that make the Christian think about the details of what they are saying. Below is an approximate order I use (any of the top 4 are likely good openers). I stop when the gambit may have got the person thinking (often after only 1 question), but rarely try to push it after that.

Do you think Jesus had a favorite Color (what color)?

Do you think Jesus ever sneezed (did he use his sleeve, handkerchief)?

Do you think Jesus bit his fingernails (were they dirty)?

Do you think Jesus snore when he slept (mouth open)?

Did Jesus ever get a cold or flu (stds/diarrhea/etc)?

Did people back then get constipated a lot (did jesus grunt)?

Did Jesus ever get a boner (what made him horny)? Wet dreams? How often did he masturbate?